8/72 Detroit mbr. of A.R.E. brought transcript of the
Detroit trial of
3/03/36 to Hugh Lynn Cayce covering
11/30/35
through
3/03/36.
OFFICE OF THE PROSECUTING ATTORNEY COUNTY OF WAYNE
Detroit, Mich., November 30, 1935.
Hon. John P. Scallen,
Judge of the Recorder's Court of the City of Detroit
Dear Sir:- I recommend the issuing of a warrant for
Practicing medicine without a license.
Betty Ruth Mitshkun
Date of Offense Nov. 21, 1935 - Nov. 22, 1935.
against Edgar Cayce, Hugh Lynn Cayce, Gertrude Cayce,
Gladys Davis,
Address 3046 Webb Ave.
upon the complaint of Maurice D. Mitshkun
Address 2940 Waverly Ave.
Respectfully yours, (signed) Duncan C. McCrea
Prosecuting Attorney
BAB'McD
COMPL.
DEFT.
CRIMINAL WARRANT
State of Michigan To the Superintendent, or any Captain,
County of Wayne Lieutenant, Sargeant, Detective or
City of Detroit Patrolman of the Metropolitan Police
Force of the City of Detroit, in said
County, GREETING:
Whereas, Maurice D. Mitshkun hath this day made complaint
to the undersigned Hon. John P. Scallen a Judge of the
Recorder's Court, of the City of Detroit, in said County,
that heretofore, to-wit, on the 21st and 22nd days of
November, A.D. 1935, at the City of Detroit, the County
aforesaid, Edgar Cayce, Hugh Lynn Cayce, Gertrude Cayce and
Gladys Davis, late of the said City of Detroit, in the County
and State aforesaid, did then and there unlawfully practice
medicine in the said City of Detroit, in the County and State
aforesaid, and did then and there, for hire and reward, treat
and attempt to treat and cure one Betty Ruth Mitshkun of a
certain disease and ailment by then and there professing to
diagnose, treat, cure and relieve the said Betty Ruth
Mitskun of said disease and ailment, by then and there
attending and giving advice to the said Betty Ruth Mitshkun
and by using certain appliances, manipulations and other
methods upon the person of the said Betty Ruth Mitshkun, in
an attempt then and there to treat, cure and relieve the
said Betty Ruth Mitshkun of a certain disease and ailment,
they, the said Edgar Cayce, Hugh Lynn Cayce, Gertrude Cayce
and Gladys Davis, not being then and there the lawful
possessors of certificates of registration or licenses as
required by law;
Contrary to the Form of the Statute, etc.
And Whereas, on examination, on oath, of said Complainant,
by me, the said Judge of the Recorder's Court, it appears
to me that said offense has been committed, and there is just
cause to suspect the said accused parties to have been guilty
thereof; therefore,
In the name of the People of the State of Michigan, You and
each of you are hereby commanded forthwith to take the said
accused parties and them bring before the Recorder's Court,
of the City of Detroit, at the Municipal Court Building,
in the said City of Detroit, to be dealt with according to
law.
Witness, The Hon. Thomas M. Cotter, Presiding Judge of the
Recorder's Court of the City of Detroit.
Given under my hand and seal, at the City of Detroit, in said
County, on the 30th day of November, A.D. 1935.
[signed, [...]]
Judge of the Recorder's Court of the City of Detroit.
STATE OF MICHIGAN
IN THE RECORDER'S COURT FOR THE CITY OF DETROIT
THE PEOPLE
VS. No. A-12096
EDGAR CAYCE,
HUGH LYNN CAYCE,
GERTRUDE CAYCE
& GLADYS DAVIS
Offense - Practicing Medicine without a License.
Examination before Hon. Christopher E. Stein,
Judge of the Recorder's Court, on Thursday, December 5, 1935.
APPEARANCES:
CHARLES W. JONES, ESQ.,
Assistant Prosecuting Attorney,
For the People.
EUGENE O'LEARY, ESQ., and
ARMAN LeFEVRE, ESQ.,
For the Defendants.
George A. Smith, Reporter.
THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF MICHIGAN
vs. RECORDER'S COURT
Edgar Cayce,
Hugh Lynn Cayce, of the
Gertrude Cayce,
Gladys Davis CITY OF DETROIT
The undersigned, a Judge of the Recorder's Court of the City
of Detroit, does hereby certify and return to the Recorder's
Court in and for the City of Detroit, that the warrant hereto
annexed was duly issued on the complaint and examination on
oath of the complainant named therein, which on reference
thereto will more fully appear. That said accused persons
were duly arrested by virtue of said warrant, and brought
before the Recorder's Court in said City of Detroit, on the
day of the date of the return, endorsed on the back of said
warrant, at which time said accused persons heard read the
charge contained in said complaint. That afterwards at the
Recorder's Court Room, in the City of Detroit, in the
presence and hearing of said accused person, I proceeded to
an examination of the witnesses, whose names are in the
dispositions hereto annexed, touching the alleged offense,
set forth in said complaint. That said witnesses were sworn
and examined, touching said offense, on the days the
depositions bear date respectively, and that the testimony
given by said witness was reduced to writing in my presence
and under my direction respectively, and is contained in
said disposition hereto annexed.
That from said testimony it appears to me that said alleged
offense was committed and that there is probable cause to
believe that the accused person Edgar Cayce, Hugh Lynn Cayce,
Gertrude Cayce and Gladys Davis to have been guilty thereof;
and I therefore, on the day of the date hereof required and
ordered said accused person Edgar Cayce, Hugh Lynn Cayce,
Gertrude Cayce and Gladys Davis to enter recognizance, with
one good and sufficient surety in the sum of Two Hundred
Dollars, conditioned for the appearance of the accused
persons at the Recorder's Court in and for the City of
Given under my hand and seal, at the City of Detroit, in said
Detroit, on the [left blank] A.D. 193-, to answer to such
information as may be filed against the said accused persons
for said offense, and in default thereof to be committed to
the County Jail of the County of Wayne, to answer to such
information.
I further certify and return, that said accused person,
Edgar Cayce, Hugh Lynn Cayce, Gertrude Cayce and Gladys Davis
did [left blank] enter into such recognizance, which said
recognizance is hereto attached.
Witness, the Hon. W. McKay Skillman, Presiding Judge of the
Recorder's Court of the City of Detroit.
Given under my hand and seal, at the City of Detroit, in said
County, on the 5th day of December, 1935.
Christopher E. Stein
Judge of the Recorder's Court of the City of Detroit,
MAURICE D. MITSHKUN, sworn for the People, testified as
follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. JONES:
(Q) What is your name, witness?
(A) Mitshkun, Maurice D.
(Q) Where do you live, Mr. Mitshkun?
(A) 2940 Waverly.
(Q) Do you have a daughter by the name of Betty Ruth
Mitshkun?
(A) I have.
(Q) How old is your daughter?
(A) Twenty years old.
(Q) Now, on or about November 21st, 1935, did you see any of
these defendants?
(A) I did, sir.
(Q) Whereabouts did you see them?
(A) In the home of Warshawsky on Tuxedo, - on Webb and
Lawton, I think it is - Lawton or Wildemere.
(Q) And is that in the City of Detroit?
(A) It is.
(Q) How many of these defendants did you see there?
(A) Four of them.
(Q) Four of them? Will you point out the ones that you saw?
(A) Behind these two gentlemen, the four people.
(indicating).
THE COURT: Indicating the defendants.
MR. JONES: Let the record show that he indicated Gladys
Davis, Gertrude Cayce, Edgar Cayce and Hugh Lynn Cayce.
(Q) Now, what time of day did you go there, Mr. Mitshkun?
(A) Three o'clock in the afternoon.
(Q) Three o'clock in the afternoon? And why did you go
there?
(A) I understood that they could -
MR. LeFEVRE: (Interrupting): I object to that, what he
understood, Your Honor.
(Q) (By Mr. Jones): Well, did you have information?
(A) I had information to the effect that they could tell
me what was wrong with my daughter and aiding in curing her.
MR. LeFEVRE: I object to that, what information he had.
It is a conclusion of the witness.
THE COURT: He said he had information that they could tell
what was wrong with his daughter. Well, after you had
information about certain things, did you go to see them?
(A) Yes.
THE COURT: Go ahead.
(Q) (By Mr. Jones): And tell us what happened after you
arrived there?
(A) I was required to join a society for the -
MR. LeFEVRE: (Interrupting): I object to that statement
that he was required, Your Honor.
(Q) (By Mr. Jones): Well, what did you do?
THE COURT: Well, we will get the facts.
(Q) (By Mr. Jones): Witness, don't tell us what you were
required to do or anything like that, or what was said, other
than what you saw or heard and the conversation with these
people at the place. Now, were you asked to do anything by
these defendants?
(A) I was asked to sign an application to a Society for the
Research of Information and Health, or some such name, which
included a psychic reading.
(Q) Who asked you to sign that application, which one of
these defendants, if any?
(A) I don't remember which one. One of them. I can't
remember.
(Q) Well, one of the men or one of the ladies?
(A) I think it was the son.
(Q) Well, figure, now, which one?
(A) Well, I say it was the son.
MR. LeFEVRE: I object to that.
THE COURT: Were they all there at that time?
(Q) (By Mr. Jones): Were they all there at that time?
(A) They were all there.
(Q) Well, now, after you were asked to sign this application
did you sign an application?
(A) I did.
(Q) And what happened after you signed the application?
(A) I was conducted into a back bedroom where all the
defendants were in there, and other people, and Mr. Cayce
laid down on a couch.
(Q) Now, which one of the Cayces?
(A) The elder Cayce.
(Q) What is his name?
MR. O'LEARY: Edgar Cayce.
MR. JONES: Let the record show that he indicates Edgar
Cayce.
(A) That is right.
(Q) Go ahead.
(A) He laid down on the couch and he went into a trance,
supposedly, and in this trance he was supposed to see the
body of the sick person.
MR. O'LEARY: Just a minute. I object to that.
MR. LeFEVRE: It is not a question of what he was supposed
to do.
(Q) (By Mr. Jones): Well, did he say that?
(A) I was told that he would do, yes, sir.
MR. LeFEVRE: Just a moment, I object to that. He should
testify to who told him and what the conversation was.
(A) They all told me there.
MR. LeFEVRE: Everyone?
(A) Every one, yes.
THE COURT: Wait a minute. Let him go ahead. Go on.
(Q) (By Mr. Jones): Go ahead, Mr. Mitshkun.
(A) And during this time he is supposed to - the body of
the sick person is supposed to appear before him in this
trance, and he sees right into this body, and can tell what
causes the sickness and what the cure would be.
(Q) Did he tell you what the cure was?
(A) Well, the cure in this case started out with some sort
of a battery I was supposed to buy.
THE COURT: How long was he in the trance?
(Q) (By Mr. Jones): How long was he in this trance?
THE COURT: And when he came out of it, what did he say to
you?
(A) How long was he in this trance?
(Q) (By Mr. Jones): Yes.
(A) Oh, about a half an hour.
(Q) What did he say when he was in this trance?
THE COURT: Did he talk?
(A) Well, he talked all the time, yes, for half or
three-quarters of an hour; I couldn't repeat it.
(Q) (By Mr. Jones): Well, what did he talk about? What did
he say?
(A) He mentioned the various divisions of the body, the
various major organisms of the body, touching upon the mental
activities and muscular, the respiratory trouble and various
divisions of the body that -
(Q) (Interrupting): Well, what did he say to you
concerning the ailment of your daughter, if anything?
(A) Well, everything that he said was - he touched upon all
the parts of the body, so that no matter what could be wrong
with her would be mentioned somewhere in this speech.
(Q) Now, did he talk to anyone in your presence there
concerning the condition of your daughter?
(A) In this trance, do you mean?
(Q) Yes, in this trance?
(A) His wife sat next to him and asked the questions, which
he answered.
(Q) Now, when you say, "his wife", do you mean the lady
sitting next to the table?
(A) Yes.
(Q) What is her name, Gertrude Cayce?
(A) Yes.
MR. JONES: Let the record show that the witness indicates
Gertrude Cayce.
(Q) Now, after his wife sat next to him and interpreted the
trance, did she talk to anyone in your presence?
(A) She asked us if we had any questions to ask.
(Q) Did you ask any questions?
(A) I didn't ask any questions myself.
(Q) Now, did anyone take down the conversation that was held
there?
(A) His Secretary is supposed to have taken down the
conversation.
(Q) Is that the other young lady who is here today?
(A) That is the young lady.
MR. JONES: Let the record show that the witness indicates
Gladys Davis.
(A) That is right.
(Q) Now, what happened after this conversation was taken
down by Mrs. Davis?
(A) After the conversation was taken down he came out of
this trance and we all went into the living room and we sat
down and conversed a few moments, and I was asked just what
was wrong with my daughter.
(Q) Who asked you?
(A) The young lady of the house, the daughter of Mr.
Warshawsky. I think her name is Mrs. Crouse (?). [Krause]
(Q) Is she here today?
(A) Yes, she is.
(Q) And was that in the presence of the four defendants?
(A) It was.
(Q) All right, go ahead and tell us what happened?
(A) And I told her that my daughter had bronchial asthma,
and I couldn't see that there was anything in this diagnosis
that he gave as to her sickness that would be mentioned -
(Q) (Interrupting): Now, were you asked to pay a fee for
this service?
(A) I was.
(Q) How much money was it?
(A) $20.
(Q) $20? And did you pay that money?
(A) I did.
(Q) And whom did you pay that money to?
(A) To Mr. Cayce, Jr.
(Q) Mr. Cayce, Jr.?
MR. JONES: Let the record show that the witness indicates
Hugh Lynn Cayce, one of the defendants in this case.
(Q) And did you get a receipt for that money?
(A) No, I did not.
(Q) Now, after this other defendant, Gladys Davis, took
down the notes, did she subsequently give you suggestions
and -
(A) (Interrupting): She did.
(Q) And was that typewritten?
(A) It was.
(Q) What, if anything, was said concerning a cure,
Mr. Mitshkun?
(A) A cure was supposed to start out with this -
Mr. LeFEVRE: (Interrupting): I object to that, "Was
supposed to start out." By whom, Your Honor?
MR. JONES: If you give him a chance, we will see who it was.
(Q) What, if anything, was said by any of these defendants
concerning a cure?
THE COURT: Concerning a what?
MR. JONES: A cure for his daughter?
(A) A cure, according to Mr. Cayce's -
(Q) (Interrupting): Cayce, Senior?
(A) (Continuing): - Cayce, Senior's, speech in this trance
starts out with the use of a battery.
(Q) What was said about that battery?
(A) Well, the battery was to be ordered from a company in
Newark, New Jersey, that they wrote the order out, and I was
to send $26 to these people for the battery, and full
instructions were to accompany the battery as to its use.
There was some -
(Q) (Interrupting): Well, now, who told you that?
(A) Miss Gladys - I don't know her last name?
(Q) Gladys Davis?
(A) Gladys Davis and Mister -
(Q) (Interrupting): Is that one of the defendants in this
case?
(A) One of the defendants, and Mr. Cayce, Jr., and Mrs.
Warshawsky tried to analyze and define this thing for me,
but -
(Q) (Interrupting): Was that in the presence of the
defendants?
(A) It was.
(Q) Go ahead.
(A) But I couldn't make head nor tail out of it, and I
decided that I couldn't go any further with it, it was too
indefinite. The -
(Q) (Interrupting): Well, you decided not to do anything
after that, is that right?
(A) That is right.
(Q) All right. Now, I will show you People's Exhibit No.
One and ask you do you recognize that exhibit?
(A) I do.
(Q) Who gave you that exhibit, People's Exhibit No. 1?
(A) This was handed to me by Miss Davis, one of the
defendants here.
(Q) And in the presence of the other three defendants?
(A) Yes, I think they were all there at the time; at least,
two of them were.
(Q) Which two?
(A) The two gentlemen.
(Q) The two gentlemen. Now, when you say "the two
gentlemen", you mean defendants, Edgar Cayce and Hugh Lynn
Cayce?
(A) That is right.
(Q) All right. Go ahead. What else happened after that?
after those instructions were given to you?
(A) Well, I started to look it over and I was reading -
(Q) (Interrupting): Pardon me just a minute. Now, were
you given any other papers there by these defendants?
(A) Yes, there was a lot of papers handed to me.
(Q) And how many other papers were given to you?
(A) There was an order for the battery on this Newark
concern, and a diet list, and also some reports of previous
cases, a couple of cases that they had reports on.
(Q) Now, who gave you this order for the battery, which one
of the defendants?
(A) Miss Davis.
(Q) And was it in the presence of these other defendants?
(A) It was.
(Q) And in what part of the house was that?
(A) In the living room.
(Q) The living room? Now, you say a diet list was also
given to you?
(A) Well, whether this could be called a diet list or not,
I don't know. It is a list of diets but it is not a
recom mendation, I don't suppose, as to what she should eat
or not eat.
(Q) I show you People's Exhibit No. 2, which reads at the
top: "Health Home Remedies Company, radio activity
appliance", and ask you whether or not you received that from
any of these defendants?
(A) Yes, I did.
(Q) From whom did you receive that?
(A) From Miss Davis.
(Q) Mrs. Davis? In the presence of these other defendants?
(A) Yes.
(Q) I will show you People's Exhibit No. 3 and ask you if
you received that?
(A) Yes, I did.
(Q) And from whom did you receive that?
(A) From the same party.
(Q) Mrs. Davis?
(A) Mrs. Davis.
(Q) In the presence of these defendants?
(A) That is right.
(Q) I will show you People's Exhibit No. 4 and ask you if
you received those?
(A) I did.
(Q) And from whom did you receive that exhibit?
(A) From Mrs. Davis.
(Q) In the presence of these defendants?
(A) That is right, sir.
MR. JONES: I will offer in evidence, Your Honor, People's
Exhibits Nos. 1, 2, 3, and 4.
MR. O'LEARY: I will object to them at the present time until
I get an opportunity to cross-examine him.
THE COURT: Well, go ahead and cross-examine him.
CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. O'LEARY:
(Q) Now, Mr. Mitshkun, you went over to Mr. Warshawsky's
house?
(A) I did.
(Q) Were you alone at the time?
(A) No, sir.
(Q) Who was with you?
(A) A friend of mine by the name of Mr. Lasky.
(Q) Your daughter didn't go over there with you?
(A) No, sir.
(Q) She was at home?
(A) Yes.
(Q) Now, when you went into Mr. Warshawsky's house, whom
did you talk to first?
(A) Mrs. Crouse (?). [Krause]
(Q) Mrs. Crouse? [Krause]
(A) Mrs. Warshawsky's daughter.
(Q) Mrs. Warshawsky's daughter?
(A) That is right.
(Q) And did you later talk with Mr. Cayce, Jr.? that is,
Hugh Lynn Cayce?
(A) Yes.
(Q) Now, at the time that you talked with Hugh Lynn Cayce,
he asked you to join - to take out a membership in the
Association for Research & Enlightenment?
(A) He said it would be required in order to get these
readings.
(Q) Before you could get this psychic reading, you had to
take this membership in this society, is that right?
(A) That is right.
(Q) And you filled out one of these applications?
(A) Yes, sir.
(Q) Did you pay a membership fee?
(A) Yes, sir.
(Q) You, yourself, personally?
(A) Yes, sir.
(Q) Now, isn't it a fact that Mr. Lasky is the one that
paid this?
(A) Well, he gave them a check for me.
(Q) Oh, Mr. Lasky really paid for it, then?
(A) He gave him a check for me.
(Q) And that check was paid payable to whom?
(A) I imagine it was paid payable to these people.
(Q) It was made payable to the association, isn't that true?
(A) It may have been; I didn't even read the check.
(Q) You didn't even read it?
(A) No, sir.
(Q) Because Mr. Lasky made out the check?
(A) He made out the check, yes, sir.
(Q) And was his own personal check?
(A) No, it wasn't a personal check, I don't think.
(Q) What was it, a company check?
(A) It probably was, yes.
(Q) When you talked to Hugh Cayce, he told you that after
you had taken out this membership his father would give you
a psychic reading on your daughter, is that right?
(A) Yes - what was that question.
(Q) When you talked to Hugh Lynn Cayce, he told you that
his father would give you a psychic reading on your daughter?
(A) Yes.
(Q) Now, at that time, Mr. Cayce didn't promise any cure for
your daughter, did he; I mean, Hugh Lynn Cayce.
(A) Yes, he told me what was wrong with her.
(Q) Just a minute. Did Hugh Lynn Cayce promise any cure for
your daughter when you talked to him?
(A) Yes, he did.
(Q) Are you sure of that?
(A) Sure.
(Q) I am talking about this man right here? (indicating).
(A) Yes.
(Q) Do you remember all that took place?
(A) Yes.
(Q) What did he say?
(A) Well, told me what is wrong with her and said, "We will
tell you how to cure her." That is why I went there.
(Q) Are you sure he promised that he could cure her? - that
his father could cure her?
(A) Yes.
(Q) Who sent you there?
(A) Who sent me there?
(Q) Yes.
(A) Mr. Lasky heard about these people from Mr. Warshawsky,
and he took me there.
(Q) What conversation did you and Mr. Lasky have about these
people?
(Q) He told me that a friend of his came into the store and
told him about a man that could diagnose and tell me how to
cure my daughter, whom various doctors have failed to do -
failed to cure.
(Q) As a matter of fact, Hugh Lynn Cayce - all he told you
was that his father would give you this psychic reading; he
didn't promise you a thing, did he?
(A) They all promised they would tell me what was wrong with
her and cure her.
(Q) And he told you, Mr. Hugh Lynn Cayce -
(Interrupting): That is why that I give him $20; I didn't
just go there to look at the people.
(Q) He told you he would charge you this $20 for the
membership in the association? [Association for Research &
Enlightenment, Inc.]
(A) Yes, which included a reading for $10.
(Q) He told you it would be a psychic reading?
(A) Yes, a psychic reading, yes.
(Q) He didn't promise you any relief, did he? Mr. Hugh Lynn
Cayce, for your daughter?
(A) Yes, I believe he did.
(Q) Your daughter was not present?
(A) No.
(Q) They didn't give her any treatment?
(A) She didn't have to be, according to them.
(Q) I show you defense Exhibit A, and I will ask you if
that is a copy of the application that you signed?
(A) This is not the copy; this is the original.
(Q) The original?
(A) Yes.
(Q) That is an application for membership in the Association
for Research and Enlightenment, is that true?
(A) That is what it is, yes.
(Q) And what does it say on there that they offer you?
(A) They offer me the psychic readings.
(Q) Will you read that?
THE COURT: Well, let the Prosecuting Attorney see it first.
MR. JONES: I object to it, Your Honor, as being immaterial.
It is not signed by the defendant.
THE COURT: He made this application out in his own
handwriting.
THE COURT: Does the testimony show that he signed an
application? Did you sign that, may I ask you?
MR. O'LEARY: He stated that it was an application made,
which was handed to him at the time. That was the basis for
it.
THE COURT: Is this your handwriting?
(A) Yes.
THE COURT: Is this the one you signed?
(A) I printed it on there.
THE COURT: Which is the one he signed?
MR. O'LEARY: This is it, Your Honor.
MR. LeFEVRE: Yes, that is the application he printed his
name on.
THE COURT: Is that your application?
(A) My signature is not there; I printed my name on there.
(Q) (By Mr. O'Leary): You printed your name on there?
MR. O'LEARY: It would be equivalent to his signature if he
printed it; that is his own writing.
MR. JONES: All right.
THE COURT: All right, go ahead.
(Q) (By Mr. O'Leary): Now, in the application did you ask
the privilege of receiving from one Mr. Edgar Cayce a
psychic reading?
(A) In this application?
(Q) Yes.
(A) Yes, I imagine this application -
THE COURT: (Interrupting): It speaks for itself, doesn't
it?
(A) It does speak for itself, yes.
(Q) (By Mr. O'Leary): Now, what other conversation did
you -
MR. O'LEARY: I will offer this in evidence. Is there any
objection?
MR. JONES: No objection.
THE WITNESS: Why, there is another slip there that I filled
out and signed. I suppose you have that?
(Q) (By Mr. O'Leary): Now, what other conversation did you
have with Hugh Lynn Cayce when you first went in there?
(A) There was another slip made out that we had some
conversation about.
(Q) Now, when you first talked to Hugh Cayce, he did not
know the nature of your daughter's ailment, did he, or you
didn't tell him?
(A) I didn't tell him, no.
(Q) They didn't attend the patient at any time?
(A) No.
(Q) No treatment was given your daughter at any time?
(A) No, not through this - not through these efforts, no.
(Q) Your daughter never saw these people?
(A) No.
(Q) And they never saw her?
(A) No, except that he was supposed to see her in his
trance.
(Q) Now, Mr. Mitshkun, you went in this place purely for the
purpose of receiving a psychic reading on your daughter,
isn't that true?
(A) That is right.
(Q) And you received that?
(A) Yes.
(Q) Now, was Mr. Hugh Cayce present at the time this reading
was taken?
(A) He was.
(Q) Are you sure of that?
(A) He was.
(Q) How many other people were present and their names, if
you know?
(A) Mrs. Cayce, Senior, was there, this Gladys Davis was
there, Mrs. Crouse was there, and Mr. Lasky and myself.
(Q) Now, when Mr. Cayce, Senior, gave you this reading, you
say he was laying on the davenport?
(A) He was.
(Q) And he was in trance?
(A) Well, I am not qualified to say as to that.
(Q) Did he appear to be unconscious?
(A) Well, he was lying there and he was talking; I don't
know whether he was unconscious or conscious, I couldn't tell
that. I didn't examine him. I am not a doctor.
(Q) Did you understand what he was saying?
(A) Yes.
(Q) Now, Mr. Cayce, Senior, was the only one that was giving
you any advice or saying anything about your daughter's
condition during this reading, isn't that right?
(A) During this psychic reading?
(Q) Yes.
(A) He was the only one that was doing any talking, yes.
(Q) He was the only one? In fact, he is the only one that
ever said anything about your daughter's condition or
treatment, is that right?
(A) Well, he said all these things in this report, and then
the rest of them tried to define them and analyze them for
me.
(Q) And all these things he said, he said while he was in
this trance?
(Q) Supposedly, yes.
(Q) And you knew all the time that you were receiving a
psychic reading.
(A) Yes.
(Q) You knew it was going to be given to you in a trance,
didn't you, before you received it?
(A) I understood that, yes.
(Q) But Mr. Lasky never told you that?
(A) I think he did.
(Q) That is the only purpose you went up there for, then,
was to receive this psychic reading?
(A) No, the purpose I went up there was to get my daughter
some treatment for what was wrong with her. I am not
interested in psychic readings, I want you to understand.
I have a sick daughter, and any father that has a sick
daughter and can't cure her is naturally looking for someone
and some way out to get that girl cured.
(Q) Why did you sign this application, then, for a
membership in this Association for Research and
Enlightenment and ask for a psychic reading?
(A) It was required in order to get this reading.
(Q) Well, did you go up there just for the psychic reading?
You knew that was what you were going to get when you went
up there?
MR. JONES: I object to that. It has been already asked and
answered. This witness said he went up there to get a cure
for his daughter.
THE COURT: He said what he went there for.
MR. JONES: Surely, he did.
THE COURT: In regard to a sick daughter. He went to try to
get relief for her.
THE WITNESS: I would try anything to get her cured.
(Q) (By Mr. O'Leary): But you knew you were going to get a
psychic reading when you went up there?
(A) I understood that I was to be told what was wrong with
her in this trance and I was told what would cure her - what
could be done to cure her.
(Q) That is what Mr. Lasky informed you, is that right?
(A) Yes, and everybody there, too. I am not interested in
psychic readings, for any other purpose.
MR. O'LEARY: I think that is all.
MR. JONES: I renew my offer, Your Honor, of these exhibits
1, 2, 3, and 4.
THE COURT: All right, the Court will admit them in evidence.
MR. JONES: Counsel, I will ask you: Do you waive the
production of the County Clerk for the purpose of the
examination, to show that the four defendants have not a
license to practice medicine in the State of Michigan?
MR. O'LEARY: Yes, I will for the purpose of the examination.
MR. JONES: Alright, I recommend that all four defendants
be held for trial.
THE COURT: Is that all?
MR. JONES: Yes, I recommend the defendants be held for
trial, all four of them, Your Honor.
MR. O'LEARY: I move at this time for the dismissal of the
complaint and warrant and the discharge of the defendants
for the reason that the People have failed to show probable
cause that anyone of these defendants in any way come under
this crime as charged. Now, this complaint charges them
with "For hire and reward to treat and attempt to treat and
to cure one Betty Lou [Ruth] Mitshkun". There is no
testimony here whatsoever that anyone of them did treat or
attempt to treat or attempt to cure. The party that was
sick was not present at any time. The complainant himself
admits that when he went there he went there for a psychic
reading and knew he was going to receive this psychic
reading.
THE COURT: No, he did not.
MR. O'LEARY: He admitted that off the witness stand.
THE COURT: He went there to see what could be done for his
daughter and said he would do most anything in order to see
his daughter healthy.
MR. JONES: Yes, that is his testimony. He said he would
take a psychic reading if necessary.
MR. O'LEARY: Yes, but he said he knew he was going to
receive a psychic reading.
THE COURT: Well, wasn't there an attempt there to cure her?
MR. O'LEARY: I wouldn't say that there was an attempt there
to cure her. It might, possibly, be an attempt to diagnose.
A psychic reading could be construed as a diagnosis. The
man admits, himself, that the man was in a trance, and any
diagnosis or any reading he gave, he gave while he was in
trance. Now, your statute on that is very specific in this
way: that it says, as far as a medical diagnosis is
concerned, it must be an actual diagnosis. Well, what is an
actual diagnosis?
Now, are we to construe that a psychic reading is a real
diagnosis, under the Medical Act? They had never seen him
before. The patient never seen these people, was not present
at any time, and it was a diagnosis given while the
complaining witness, himself, says he was in a trance.
THE COURT: Didn't he advise him what should be done, how to
proceed in order to help the girl in some way, his daughter?
Didn't he advise getting this battery?
MR. O'LEARY: Yes, but the way it was given, it wouldn't come
within the statute as a real diagnosis.
THE COURT: All right, I think it would come under the
statute.
MR. O'LEARY: Now, it is alleged here that they treated her.
There is no testimony here that they did treat her.
THE COURT: But there is some here that he diagnosed it and
he offered to treat. Well, you had better go to trial and
find out.
MR. O'LEARY: Well, as far as any diagnosis, if there is a
diagnosis, if Your Honor is going to take this diagnosis,
why, I think Mr. Cayce, Senior, is, possibly, the only one
who has given any diagnosis here. That is about all they
have here, the diagnosis given under these psychic
conditions.
THE COURT: Well, they all took part in it, didn't they?
MR. O'LEARY: They were present, but they didn't give any
advice.
THE COURT: Well, I will hold them all for trial.
MR. JONES: If they were all present, they would be equally
as guilty as the principal.
THE COURT: Bond will be continued.
QUESTIONING OF ABE WARSHAWSKY, 3046 WEBB AVE., DETROIT,
MICH.:
(Q) Do you know one, Maurice Mitshkun?
(A) Yes.
(Q) Did you have a conversation with him on November 21st,
1935?
(A) Over the telephone.
(Q) What was the substance of that conversation?
(A) I was in the Lasky Furniture Co., talking with Mr. Lasky
regarding the psychic work of Edgar Cayce. Mr. Lasky called
Mr. Mitshkun on the phone and talked with him about securing
a psychic reading for his daughter. Mr. Lasky then asked me
to talk with Mr. Mitshkun to advise him about making the
necessary appointment for his daughter. I talked with
Mr. Mitshkun, telling him of experiences I had seen resulting
from such readings and explaining the membership in the
Association which is presenting and studying Mr. Cayce's
work.
(Q) You did not see Mr. Mitshkun on the 21st?
(A) No I did not see him until evening of the 22nd, in my
home at 3046 Webb Ave.
(Q) Did you have any conversation with Mr. Mitshkun at that
time?
(A) Yes.
(Q) What was the nature of the conversation?
(A) He expressed himself as being dissatisfied with the
reading because it did not specifically state that his
daughter had asthma. He felt that there was only one cure
for asthma and that was to send her to Arizona.
(Q) Who was present at this time?
(A) Mrs. Warshawsky, Mr. and Mrs. Cayce and Miss Gladys
Davis.
(Q) During this evening at your home did Mr. Cayce,
Mrs. Cayce or Gladys Davis make any promises to Mr. Mitshkun
regarding cures for his daughter?
(A) I did not. After Mr. Mitshkun stated that he did not
have funds to carry out the reading, Mr. Cayce offered to
recommend to the Association for Research & Enlightenment,
Inc., that whatever expenses necessary in checking the
information of the reading be met by the Association without
cost to Mr. Mitshkun.
Note: The point might be stressed from the above testimony
that Mr. Mitshkun received from Mr. Warshawsky and Mr. Lasky
the impression that Mr. Cayce made promises regarding curing
his daughter, but that no such claims were made by any one
connected with the Association.
QUESTIONING HUGH LYNN CAYCE:
(Q) Do you know one, Maurice D. Mitshkun?
(A) Yes.
(Q) When did you first meet Mr. Mitshkun?
(A) On the afternoon of November 21, 1935, at the home of
Mr. Warshawsky, 3046 Webb Ave.
(Q) Give the substance of your conversation with him.
(A) I explained to Mr. Mitshkun that my father's psychic
abilities were being investigated by the Association for
Research & Enlightenment, Inc., and that as a member of this
organization he might take part in a psychological experiment
to study and check the value of psychic information, by
having a reading on himself or members of his family if he
so desired. I discussed briefly with Mr. Mitshkun the work
of the organization in collecting and studying data of a
psychic nature through the cooperation of individuals and
doctors in charge of various cases.
(Q) Did he suggest that he would like to have a reading?
(A) He did.
(Q) Did you have any other conversation with him, Mr.
Mitshkun, involving any cure for his daughter.
(A) I explained to Mr. Mitshkun that he was receiving only
a psychic reading, and that we gave no treatments or made any
promises regarding results, for in many instances the reading
offered nothing of interest for further study. I pointed out
to Mr. Mitshkun that as an organization we would be glad to
help him in any way possible in obtaining the doctors'
cooperation in following out any information he might
receive. I made no promises regarding a cure for his
daughter.
(Q) Did Mr. Mitshkun take out a membership in the
Association?
(A) Yes. Mr. Mitshkun handed me a blank which he filled
out in my presence and Mr. Lasky gave me a check made out
to the Association for the membership fee.
(Q) Did you cash that check?
(A) The check was forwarded to the Association's account in
Virginia Beach, Virginia.
(Q) Was the reading given that afternoon?
(A) Yes.
(Q) When Mr. Mitshkun arrived was anyone with him?
(A) Yes - Mr. Lasky.
(Q) Did you have any conversation with Mr. Lasky?
(A) No direct conversation. Mr. Lasky heard my conversation
with Mr. Mitshkun.
(Q) Are you sure you made no promises to Mr. Mitshkun
regarding his daughter?
(A) I promised him nothing. I explained that we had no way
of knowing what would be given in one of these psychic
readings.
(Q) Did you tell him that you did not direct treating?
(A) I did.
(Q) Was the daughter present when the reading was given?
(A) She was not.
(Q) After the reading was over did you have any further
conversation?
(A) We discussed the girl's condition. He described the
condition as bronchial asthma.
(Q) Did he express any dissatisfaction?
(A) He indicated that he did not understand the reading.
I suggested that he come back the following afternoon or
evening after the material had been typed and go over the
data.
(Q) Did you see Mr. Mitshkun on the evening of the 22nd?
(A) No.
(Q) Who was present when you first talked to Mr. Mitshkun?
(A) Mr. Lasky and Mrs. Krause.
(Q) Who was present when the reading was given?
(A) Mrs. Cayce, Miss Davis, Mrs. Krause, Mr. Mitshkun and
Mr. Lasky.
(Q) After the reading was over did the express any
dissatisfaction?
(A) He said that the reading did not cover the case. I
suggested that we wait and discuss the typewritten copy as
the reading was difficult to understand.
(Q) Did you admit to Mr. Mitshkun that the readings some-
times suggested a line of treatment?
(A) I explained to Mr. Mitshkun that this psychic
information generally contained suggestions for treatment
to be followed by a physician, but that this was given in a
psychic state and should be studied and tested, as that was
the purpose of the organization and his membership in it.
(Q) Did you make any suggestions regarding the Wet Cell
Appliance suggested in the reading.
(A) I told him of cases that had used such appliances with
beneficial results. This was in line with our discussion of
the research work being conducted by the organization.
QUESTIONING GUILDA KRAUS
(Q) Where do you live?
(A) 3311 Chicago Blvd.
(Q) Where you present in your father's home when Mr.
Mitshkun was a visitor there on November 21.
(A) Yes, I was.
(Q) Will you tell us who else was present?
(A) Mr. Lasky, Mr. and Mrs. Cayce, Hugh Lynn Cayce and
Gladys Davis.
(Q) Were you present with Mr. Mitshkun and Mr. Lasky when
they had a conversation with Hugh Lynn Cayce.
(A) Yes I was.
(Q) Did you have any conversation with Mr. Lasky or
Mr. Mitshkun?
(A) They asked me how this was done and I explained that
Mr. Cayce went to sleep.
(Q) Did you hear the whole conversation between Hugh Lynn
Cayce and Mr. Mitshkun?
(A) I did.
(Q) What was the substance of their conversation?
(A) Hugh Lynn explained to Mr. Mitshkun and Mr. Lasky about
the work of the Association in studying and investigating
the work of his father and explained the membership
arrangement by which members, if they desired, could take
part in the experiments being carried on.
(Q) Did Hugh Lynn Cayce make any promises regarding the
curing of Mr. Mitshkun's daughter?
(A) No.
(Q) Did he say that the reading would prescribe a treatment?
(A) He said that there was no way of knowing just what would
be given in the reading but that from past experiences we
felt that interesting and valuable data might be secured.
(Q) Did you hear Hugh Lynn Cayce at any time suggest any
treatment for Mr. Mitshkun's daughter?
(A) I did not.
(Q) What conversation followed the reading?
(A) We discussed the daughter's condition and I described
to Mr. Mitshkun a Wet Cell Appliance as I had seen one
working. Mr. Mitshkun appeared not to understand the
information and said that his daughter had bronchial asthma
and that only a change of climate would help her.
QUESTIONING EDGAR CAYCE:
(Q) Did you have any conversation with Mr. Mitshkun on
November 21, before the reading.
(A) No.
(Q) After the reading on the same afternoon did you have
any conversation with him.
(A) No.
(Q) On the 22nd did you have any conversation with him.
(A) I told Mr. Mitshkun that I did not understand the
psychic work which I was doing, and that I did not know
that it was valuable or worth while except from the
experiences others told me of checking and following up the
information given while I was in a psychic state. I told him
that the Association was trying to study the work with the
view of making it valuable to others. He mentioned the fact
of being unable to follow the information and I told him that
I would be glad to ask the Research Committee of the
Association to meet all expenses of following his
daughter's reading.
(Q) Do you refer to the Association for Research and
Enlightenment, Inc.
(A) Yes.
(Q) This Association is incorporated in the state of
Virginia?
(A) Yes.
(Q) Does this Association operate under a charter from the
State of Virginia?
(A) It does.
(Q) Where is the principal office of the Association.
(A) Virginia Beach, Va.
(Q) Briefly what are the purposes of the Association.
(A) To conduct and carrying on psychical and scientific
research.
(Q) Did you at any time in your conversation with Mr.
Mitshkun claim to be able to cure his daughter.
(A) I did not.
QUESTIONING MR. DILLMAN
(Q) What is your name.
(A) Charles Weston Dillman.
(Q) Where do you live.
(A) Dearborn, Mich.
(Q) Where did you live formerly?
(A) I travel much of the time.
(Q) Do you know Edgar Cayce?
(A) Yes.
(Q) How long have you known him?
(A) For thirteen years.
(Q) Are you a member of the Association for Research and
Enlightenment, Inc.
(A) I am.
(Q) How long have you been a member?
(A) For three years.
(Q) Where were you living at that time.
(A) In Pittsburgh, Penn.
(Q) How many times have you seen Mr. Cayce since coming
to know him.
(A) I have seen him a great many times. I am always in
touch with the activities of the Association.
(Q) What are the purposes of this Association.
(A) To study and investigate psychic phenomena and their
possible affects on various phases of human life.
(Q) To what does a membership entitle you.
(A) A participation in all of the research activities of
the organization through the study of psychic data on others
or on those directly under your observation such as members
of your family or yourself. You also receive regular
publications of the organization reporting its findings.
(Q) What types of psychic information have you studied as
a member?
(A) Historical, psychological, medical, philosophical,
scientific.
(Q) Have you had readings from Mr. Cayce through the
Association.
(A) I have.
(Q) When did you have the last one.
(A) Two or three months ago.
(Q) In obtaining information for yourself did Mr. Cayce make
any promises as to curing or helping you.
(A) He did not. I have never known Mr. Cayce to make
promises of any kind regarding his work.
3/05/36 HLC's ltr. to D. Johnston:
Mr. Douglas T. Johnston
Graybar Building,
New York City
Dear Mr. Johnston:
I wish to thank you again for your kindness and assistance
in clearing up the Detroit situation. The whole matter was
most unfortunate.
As advised in conversation with you and Mr. McQuade [Eugene
T. McQuade], and also by both Detroit attorneys, my father
entered a plea of technical guilt under the Michigan statute.
The case was dismissed against the other three, mother, Miss
Davis and me. The entire discussion of the case took place
in the private chambers of the Judge. As usual in such
cases it was referred to the probation division. The time
for reporting on it was out, at the Judge's request, from
a week, the usual time, to a couple of hours. My father
spent an hour with the probation officer and was then asked
to lunch in order that the discussion of the work might be
continued. In the course of the interview I understand
that the officer asked that an application blank and other
literature be sent him because of a personal interest. I
had an opportunity to explain the work of the Association
and present our Charter, letters and other papers. This
probation officer sent in an excellent report to the Judge.
The Judge then called my father and explained that he was
very sorry that the situation ever arose. He said that
he would be glad to do anything possible to avoid causing
further trouble. He suggested that the original membership
fee be returned and a short probation period be imposed.
If we preferred he indicated that he would be glad to
impose a small fine of a few dollars rather than a period
of probation. After the trial he asked several questions
about the work, shook hands with my father and told him he
was very sorry that the whole thing happened. All of this
took place Tuesday morning and during the early afternoon
enabling us to leave the same afternoon for Virginia Beach.
Your letter was read by both Judge and probation officer and
was one of the few that did not constitute more evidence that
we were actually practicing medicine. Thank you very much
for it.
I am inclosing a statement of the funds used from the bond
money and a check for the balance. I deeply regret the
necessity for such expenditures. In order to be in Detroit
before Mr. Warshawsky, bondsmen and principal witness left
the city, we had to return sooner than I expected. The
weather here and in Detroit at that time prevented our
driving. The Association treasury, never very full, was
taxed beyond its capacity. We had sufficient funds on hand
for the trip up but found it necessary to use some of the
bond money for the return. This you will see noted on the
statement.
I am preparing a letter of explanation relative to the
Detroit difficulties which will be sent out at once. This
letter will ask for contributions from members to assist
in meeting the expenses involved. These funds will be kept
separate and further reimbursements forwarded to you.
No publicity accompanied the trial. We received over a
hundred and fifty letters during the week between the
reinstating of the bond and the trial, some of them
containing splendid affidavits regarding cases upon
which we did not have complete reports.
Dr. Lucien Warner [Lucien Warner, Ph.D] of Columbia,
regarding whom I wrote you, became a member of the
Association when he stopped here on his way to Duke
where he is making connections to carry on some psychic
research work. He seemed most interested in the work and
expressed himself as desirous of coming to the Beach to make
some close personal observations and conduct a thorough study
of the phenomena manifested through my father. I will advise
you of any further developments as I feel that this will lead
to just the type of connection we need to place the work on
a solid scientific basis. Dr. Warner said that he would be
very glad to introduce my father to Dr. Carrel [Alexis
Carrel, M.D.] whom he knows personally and who, he felt,
would be most interested in our work.
Sugrue is at a temporary standstill with his articles
requiring he says several interviews with my father to
fill in the details of much of the material he is presenting.
[See
254-88 regarding pubs.]
At the present time our appointments are limited.
Considering the above three reasons I am advising a short
trip to New York for my father during March. Warner has
returned to New York and will conduct his experiments
from there. I feel that a follow-up with regard to his
suggestions about Dr. Carrel as well as the work with
Sugrue are most important.
Thank you again for your kindness and helpfulness. Words
cannot express our personal gratitude.
Sincerely, Hugh Lynn Cayce
P.S. I have just discussed the possible New York trip with
my father and we have decided that it will be wise to delay
it until the first two weeks in April...
8/07/74 GD's note: On
6/09/72 Miss [Marilyn L.] Collinson was
mailed by her request, two copies of the court records of
Edgar Cayce's trial in Detroit in Dec. 1935 and March 1936.
She later brought these records to Hugh Lynn Cayce,
8/07/72.
HLC's secretary, Norrene Leary, gave them to GDT [Gladys
Davis Turner] by HLC's request, for making a part of the
archives. I put one copy as the Master under 254-89 Reports
and the other copy in the Library under 254-89 Reports.
Three extra copies of sheets preceding the court trial were
also placed in the date sequence
11/30/35 vault books and in
EC's correspondence folder for 1935 & 1936 - also under
254-89 Reports.



Edgar Cayce Readings © 1971, 1993, 1994, 1995 by the Edgar Cayce Foundation