This Psychic Reading given by Edgar Cayce at his office, 115 West 35th Street, Virginia Beach, Va., this 25th day of October, 1925, in accordance with request made by Morton Blumenthal.

Present: Edgar Cayce; Morton Blumenthal, Conductor; Gladys Davis, Steno. Mrs. Morton Blumenthal and Mrs. Edgar Cayce.

TEXT

1. MB: You will have before you the bodies of Edgar Cayce and Morton Blumenthal, present in this room, and the proposition they are entertaining regarding the marketing and exploiting of Ipsab. You will also have before you any individuals and conditions relating to this proposition. You will first give us one good plan by which we may begin this work. You will then answer the questions which I shall ask you related to this.
2. EC: Yes, we have those bodies, those conditions, as relating to the proposition of exploiting and distributing of Ipsab, those properties that would prove beneficial to many that seek to gain relief through appliance of such.
3. In presenting the proposition as to how to exploit, distribute, such properties, well first that those plans as have seen outlined for same be followed very closely for the good of all. Then this would be a manner, a proposition to consider well. First that such an establishment be put in operation where the manufacturing of same could be carried out with facilities for the shipment of same in one, two, three or dozen, or gross packages of same, with the supervision in hands of one that was interested in the construction of every phase of same in manner as has been outlined, with the mail and the central distribution points for same, for there will be found that many agencies through such a manner may be established in various portions of the country and gradually worked into that of distributing points through wholesale and retail dealers and trade, see? That is, such as this: Some point under the indirect supervision of those sources through which same is obtained, see? with those directing factors from and through same as to individuals and centers through which same may be distributed, with a central distributing point in some large enough center to be worth while to individuals or groups desiring same in manner as outlined. Ready for questions.
4. (Q) Would the plan of having Mr. L. B. Cayce manufacture the medicine in Norfolk for distribution in N.Y., the distributing department in N.Y. to be put in charge of some competent sales manager, under the general supervision of Morton and Edwin Blumenthal, be a good plan?
   (A) In this we would find the manufacturing and distributing agencies under the supervision of individuals such as has been given. Then very good, see?
5. (Q) Will you give us a name of a reliable, trustworthy, sales manager, competent to handle such a department in N.Y. and be able to give his whole time to it?
   (A) Such an one must be sought through those forces that have charge of distributing same, see?
6. (Q) Should Dr. [[4508]'s dentist's] proposition in relation to Ammonium Ichthyolate be considered in relation or conjunction with the Ipsab proposition? [See 4508-1 of 8/26/25.]
   (A) As has been given, same was possible to be worked in conjunction with one another, but why burden one with a dead expense for the other, see?
7. (Q) It would be better then that Morton and Edwin Blumenthal keep their hands away from the Ammonium Ichthyolate, having enough irons in the fire at the present time?
   (A) Well to keep same away. Unless one could give whole personal attention to same, too much involved, with too much entanglement through that of formulas and of the distributions as have been made through other sources to mix same together, see?
8. (Q) Would it be well to start the Ipsab proposition immediately, or await the beneficial results of some stock investments for the Ipsab Corporation, that additional finances may be had to put the thing over in a better, safer, manner?
   (A) Start December 15th.
9. (Q) 15th of this month, 15th of November?
   (A) 15th of December, as given.
10. That is all of the questions for this reading.
11. As we find, there may be much said regarding the starting of such operations with this, for there will be many various properties to be considered and the distributing center should be in a place where that the field may be covered in a manner that will give the better facilities to all concerned. That is, with one center distributing to larger points, one to the mail order. Then other properties should be considered, as how same would be handled also, for the same amount of monies expended in sending out package in small quantities, may carry the same information regarding other properties for various conditions. All are free in the open mails, when handled properly.
12. We are through with this reading.

BACKGROUND

1. See 1800-1 through 1800-3.
2. GD's note: At first the formula was referred to simply as the "pyorrhea cure" but many discussions took place trying to decide on a name for marketing it. Gertrude Cayce suggested the name Ipsab, combining the first letters of the main ingredients. The name stuck, and thereafter when suggested in a reading the name Ipsab was used.

REPORTS

1. 12/01/25 See 1800-13 in re manufacture and distribution of Radio-Active Appliance.
2. 9/28/31 See 257-74, Par. 39-A--45-A in re Ipsab.
3. 2/16/32 EC's reply to Mr. [426]'s questions, an A.R.E. member, advertising man, who offered his advice after knowing all the facts:
   In regard to my compound, that has been suggested as a specific so often through the information, first I would like to say there has been as yet no concerted effort to manufacture or distribute the product. Two groups of individuals have been interested in organizing a company to do so, but each time there appeared to be some misunderstandings in one direction or another before they ever arrived at the point of actually doing anything. I will try to answer each question you asked in detail, and then give you the plan that is at present in the making:
   So far there is little or no finances in sight. There IS a very large profit in the goods. The compound was first given a few years ago to the dental association for testing, but I have no report in my possession from that association. It is being used at the present time by probably twenty-five dentists throughout the country. I have never had any criticism whatsoever from any individual use, or from the dentist's use. I have only one report from a dentist. In that case he used a one ounce bottle to cure five cases of pyorrhea; consequently it would not be the best, as we see it, to distribute this wholly or solely through the dentists. We have never made any effort to have it adopted by the American Medical Association. It was presented to the dental association in Detroit and out of this came one of the better known dentifrices that is on the market today [Ipana]. It does not contain any poison of any quantity, even though the whole bottle should be taken - though it might make a person sick, as it contains quite a quantity of salt. It has never been on the market except very locally. It has been in use for ten years, at least. There has never been a concerted effort to make or sell it, either through the profession or to the public. There are a number of individuals through the south and east using it from time to time. As to the number last year manufactured and sent out, I would say that - just locally manufactured and sent out to those who request it, from mouth to mouth advertising - there was about five hundred dollars worth sold; that is, about that much receipts - and most of it profit. Now, the plan: There is a drug chain in the south, headquarters in Nashville, Tennessee. One of the druggists has known of this compound for some time. He has sold a few bottles of it in his store, and has given out a number to local dentists for their use. His chain comprises about a hundred and nineteen drug stores. The idea was for us to begin in a small way with me manufacturing it, (as I do not care to give out the formula - unless I can be assured that it will be taken care of in the proper way, and that my dependents will be taken care of) and distributing it to this chain of stores. Of course, without money, we couldn't do much advertising. Whether this is sensible, reasonable or plausible or not, I don't know - that's why I have asked for your advice. Whether it is worth considering or not, I don't know. I KNOW the compound does the work! I'll be glad to send you a bottle and let you see what you think of it, if you would care to advise me further [2/20/32 See Mr. [426]'s reply under 426-1 Reports].
4. 4/20/32 See 1800-18, next reading on Ipsab.
5. 2/23/32 H. B. Harrell's letter to EC:
   H. B. Harrell, Jr. ATTORNEY-AT-LAW WELDON, N.C.
   Mr. Edgar Cayce 105 St. & Ocean Virginia Beach, Va.
   Dear Mr. Cayce:-
   Thank you for your kind letter of the 20th, which was received this morning. Your expressions of kindness are greatly appreciated. I would like to be in a position to do something substantial in the way of financial aid for the association if I knew how.
   With regard to your desired trade mark, register, etc. for the pyorrhea remedy, I am writing Clarence A. O'Brien, Patent Attorney, of Washington, D.C. for full information, as I have never handled any matters in this field myself. However, I have had several letters from Mr. O'Brien, asking me to send him business of this nature when I had any. I shall get full details from him, and go over it with you before we place the case with him.
   Mrs. Harrell has gained in strength wonderfully in the past few days, especially since I have been able to get liver for her to eat more regularly, and since I have put her back on the Armour's Liver Extract, same being of the kind of blood builders recommended by you in the last reading.
   I would have liked very much to have heard the lecture regarding "The Lost Continent of Atlantis", as all the information I have ever had concerning it made it appear to me as more or less mythological. With very kindest regards to yourself and all at your house, I am,
   Sincerely, [signed] Bascomb Harrell
6. 3/08/32 EC's letter to Mr. Harrell:
   Dear Mr. Harrell:-
   I have been rather anxious to hear further your report form Mr. O'Brien in Washington regarding the register and trademark, as we are getting about ready to get to work on this as soon as it is practical. That, to be sure, is one of the first things we have to comply with.
   For the last week we have been rather busy getting moved. I hope you folks will not experience any trouble in locating us the next time you come to the Beach. We are now in what is known as the Pinewood section, on Lake Drive, occupying two little cottages. While they are not right close together, they are not so far apart as to make it inconvenient. One is right on the lake, the other is a couple hundred yards farther along the drive and more in the woods. One would scarcely think we were close to the ocean, looking out the window as I am now - it would appear more like we were in a forest. I believe we will like it, when we get all straightened out. This cold snap caught us just before we were ready, so we are finding out many of the inconveniences. Among them, now we have MUD instead of sand - when it rains, freezes and thaws - as our street is gravel rather than concrete. However, all considered, I think it will be very much better. Let's hope so, anyway.
   I'm certainly glad that Mrs. Harrell is continuing to gain in strength. We are always anxious to hear from her, and trust you will acquaint us with her condition regularly.
   Be sure and let me have some word about the attorney as soon as possible, as of course I'm very anxious about this.
   We have not gotten the address ready on the Lost Continent of Atlantis, as there were many questions we have desired to ask and compile with the data given. We hope to send a copy of this in the very near future. Of course, we will be glad to distribute these to those who are interested.
   Let us hear from you whenever you can. With all good wishes and love to you both, I am
   Sincerely, [EC:GD]
7. 3/09/32 H. B. Harrell's letter to EC: H. B. Harrell, Jr. ATTORNEY-AT-LAW WELDON, N.C.
   Mr. Edgar Cayce Virginia Beach, Va.
   Dear Mr. Cayce:-
   I have your letter, and regret that I have not written Mr. O'Brien before, but have been running around trying to attend to so many things that I have gotten rather confused I am afraid. However, I have written Mr. O'Brien today, and have asked for an immediate reply. I am also enclosing one of his Trademark Questionnaires [see Par. R8, below] which I have been able to locate in my files. I put my name at the bottom as local attorney because I can save you one-third of all the fees or thereabouts in connection with getting the trade mark established. This is the usual division which a forwarding attorney received, and, of course, I shall make no charge for my part of it.
   I was somewhat surprised to find that you had actually moved though you hinted at making some changes in your last letter to Mrs. Harrell. As you say, I hope that your move is for the best. I have a very earnest desire to have a hand in helping to bring you into your own, but the question with me is How can this be accomplished?
   I might have known that something was taking place at your house, as I have dreamed about your people for the past three nights up to but not including last night, but I did not see you near the sea. Heretofore, when I have dreamed about any of you, and I have several times, I have always seen the sea.
   Yes, Mrs. Harrell is much better than she has been at any similar period for some years, and I believe that she is nearing the end of her illness.
   Both of us will be much pleased to have a copy on the Lost Continent of Atlantis Lecture. I am really more interested in psychology, philosophy and ethics than in practicing law, though I am getting in some good business now which should mature later and bring in good fees, - if and when it does.
   I took another Civil Service examination in Raleigh on December 1st. for Attorney for the Veterans Bureau, and I am advised that I now stand sixth from the top of the list of eligibles for Attorney, and second from the top of the eligible list for Associate Attorney.
   I have also recently been to see Mr. Lawrence and Mr. Springs, who were with me at your house on January 16th., with regard to further plans for the creosoting plant which we discussed with Mr. Kahn while there. No definite plans have as yet been made, but the creosoting business is by far the best business to be in at the present time, and the prospects of its holding up appear excellent for the next thirty years until all replacements needed will be made with creosoted timbers. Then the business has its humanitarian side as it helps conserve our forests, so that there would not be nearly so much timber cut in the future, and by this means conserves life on the earth.
   I suppose I had better close now as I have gossiped enough. I will let you hear form me just as soon as I hear from Mr. O'Brien.
   With very kind regards and best wishes for all of you, and hoping to see you soon, I am,
   Yours very truly, [signed] Bascomb Harrell
8. Clarence A. O'Brien's Trademark Questionnaire, enclosed with Mr. Harrell's letter [Par. R7, above]:
   Clarence A. O'Brien Washington, D.C.
   TRADEMARK QUESTIONNAIRE
   1. What is the nature of the mark to be registered? (A. A word or words? "Word" (B. A picture, design or emblem? (C. A combination of words and picture?
   2. Describe, print, or attach the mark here
   3. What special meaning, impression, or significance does the mark have? "Name for remedy"
   4. On what classes of goods or merchandise is mark used? (List specific articles by commercial names) "It will be on a pyorrhea remedy."
   NOTICE: Answer only ONE of questions Nos. 5 - 6 - 7 & 8
   5. Is the owner of the mark an INDIVIDUAL? "Yes" (A. An INDIVIDUAL operating under his own name? "Yes" (B. An individual operating under an ASSUMED name? What name? "Edgar Cayce"
   6. Is the owner a CO-PARNERSHIP? (A. If so, what is the partnership name? (B. Who are the partners? (Give full names) 7. If owner is a company operating as a FIRM give the Company name (A. Names of Members?
   8. If owner is a CORPORATION, (A. Give corporate name (B. Under which State Law is it incorporated? (C. Name and title of Officer who will sign application papers
   9. Give Citizenship here "American"
   10. Is the mark in use now? "No" (A. Give the earliest possible first date of use of the mark "Within next 60 days."
   11. How is the mark applied to the goods or containers for the goods? (This may be by way of printed labels, tags, wrappers, stencil, embossing, engraving, stamping, etching, etc.) "Pasted on container."
   12. Give here the particular street business address, if any "Virginia Beach, Virginia."
   Name of local attorney H. B. Harrell, Jr., Weldon, N.C.
9. 3/12/32 Clarence O'Brien's letter to Mr. Harrell:
   LAW OFFICES CLARENCE A. O'BRIEN REGISTERED PATENT ATTORNEY PATENTS AND TRADE MARKS EXCLUSIVELY
   ADAMS BUILDING Entire Sixth Floor, 1333 F St., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C.
   Mr. H. B. Harrell, Jr., Attorney at Law, Weldon, N.C.
   Dear Mr. Harrell:
   Answering your letter of March 9, I would state that patents are sometimes granted to cover compounds and preparations such as include original discoveries. Hence I would say that the case at bar comes within the limits or category of the United States Patent Laws.
   From experience, the consensus of opinion here is that worthwhile patents are rarely granted in this line of endeavor. Even so, we find that many clients desire to file the application irrespective of the outcome in order to test the question of patentability. Sometimes the filing takes place without making a search through the prior records. Under other circumstances, the client insists on making a cursory search first to see if the same idea or a similar discovery has been previously patented. Personally, I believe that this is the better plan to follow; that is, to make a cursory search for a nominal charge of $15.00. If you desire this service, let me have an exacting disclosure, setting down the ingredients, the relative proportions, and explaining the method of compounding, the chemical reaction, if any, features and advantages, etc.
   There is one thing that filing accomplishes, and that is, it give the applicant the opportunity to use on his labels and other paraphernalia, the Official notation or legend "Patent Applied For". This has the desired official significance and reaction in the trade, and apparently carries considerable commercial appeal.
   Some manufacturers rightly contend that the most practical way to handle a proposition of this kind is to merely market under a secret formula, provided that State laws are not violated. In accomplishing this, it is always wise, in any instance to adopt a trade-mark to distinguish the product in trade, and to register the trade-mark in the United States Patent Office. Write me promptly instructing me which course you have decided to follow.
   Cordially yours, [signed] Clarence A. O'Brien [JHL:CB]
10. 3/12/32 Clarence O'Brien's letter to Mr. Harrell:
    LAW OFFICES CLARENCE A. O'BRIEN REGISTERED PATENT ATTORNEY PATENTS AND TRADE MARKS EXCLUSIVELY
    ADAMS BUILDING Entire Sixth Floor, 1333 F St., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C.
    Mr. H. B. Harrell, Jr., Attorney at Law, Weldon, N.C.
    Dear Mr. Harrell:
    In accordance with the divisional fee basis of this office, you are entitled to one-third of all investigation and attorneys fees submitted.
    You will find this divisional fee basis fully set forth in the accompanying booklet, for your confidential information. Cordially yours, [signed] Clarence A. O'Brien [JHL:CB]
11. 3/12/32 EC's letter to Mr. Harrell:
    My dear Mr. Harrell:-
    I have just received yours of the 9th, enclosing the Questionnaire regarding Trademark, which I am filling out - I hope - in proper shape. Certainly appreciate your attending to this. Let me know about the necessary fees, as to whether I have to have a drawing made for the establishing of this name as a trademark, etc. I do not believe this is necessary, though it may be.
    We are gradually getting straightened out in our new quarters. We are finding some things more satisfactory, and others not so convenient. It will at least give us more privacy, and we hope make those who come for readings feel that we are endeavoring to give them the very best possible.
    I am indeed glad that Mrs. Harrell is so much improved. I sincerely believe she will continue to do so. I trust that in the not so far distant future you will be able to make us a visit again. Know that we are always glad and anxious to see you all. Trust that you will let us hear from you.
    I hope your examinations are more satisfactory and that you will soon obtain the appointment, if that is what you most desire.
    We haven't as yet completed the data on Atlantis, as there are many questions that naturally arose which we are hoping to clarify, so as to make the information more interesting.
    I haven't heard anything more from Mr. Kahn regarding the creosoting proposition. I know he has been quite busy recently, as there have been many changes in his associations and connections that have brought both satisfactory and very disturbing factors in this experience. I certainly hope he may be able to work out something satisfactory to all concerned.
    Again thanking you, and hoping that we may see you very soon - with love to you both, I am
    Sincerely, [EC:GD]
12. 3/16/32 H. B. Harrell's letter to EC:
    H. B. Harrell, Jr. ATTORNEY-AT-LAW WELDON, N.C.
    Mr. Edgar Cayce Virginia Beach, Va.
    Dear Mr. Cayce:-
    Replying to yours of some time ago, I am herewith enclosing two letters from Clarence A. O'Brien to myself together with his trade mark folder.
    His first requirement is a $15.00 fee for a search of the records to discover whether your trade mark and remedy are capable of registration without infringement. However, in your case make your check only $10.00, and make it payable to Clarence A. O'Brien.
    He gives the following tabulation of cost for registration:
    Preliminary Investigation & Report $15.00 (divisible) U.S. Government fee $15.00 (indivisible) Cost of Official Drawing 5.00 (indivisible) Attorney's fee 50.00 (divisible)
    Total $85.00 Less deductions to you 21.65 on divisible fees.
    Net fees to you $63.35
    I am also returning your trade mark questionnaire in case you should change your mind and wish to patent your formula as well as register your trade mark.
    I trust that all of you are well. Mr. Harrell is doing very well under the circumstances.
    With love and kindest regards from both of us to all of you, I am,
    Sincerely, [signed] Bascomb Harrell
13. 4/20/32 See 1800-18, next reading on Ipsab.

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